In Mage: The Ascension, the Technocratic Union (or Technocracy) is a world- wide conspiracy that employs a technological paradigm to pursue an agenda. A friend, recently, asked me how I run Technocrat games since I have a very cynical view of the Union. I tell him that I treat the Union higher-ups. Guide to the Technocracy (Mage: The Ascension) [Phil Brucato] on *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. We are the greatest scientific minds of.
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Login or Sign Up Log in with. Search in titles only. Is the Technocracy more popular than the Council of Nine in the fandom? I’m a Traditions fan from all the way back to the BPT and have strong feelings about the evolution of the game, but recognize that the idea of an evil conspiracy of scientists making up their own rules to run the world in secret has aged very badly c. All that said, I explicitly want to avoid in-universe arguments about who’s winning and the specific morality of the factions.
IMO, since M20 is taking “official canon” and metaplot out back and burying them, there’s no pre-determined way to interpret azcension of Mage’s big groups. This is a question specifically, mine about how Mage players feel about the Traditions and Technocracy.
For the most part, I’ve only been around the forums here and on the Kickstarter, with a brief peek at the rpg. Now with M20 ready to support any faction other than Marauders and Nephandi — and Marauders are probably playable with some tinkering — I’m not complaining or having any sort of existential crisis or anything.
I’ve got plenty of material to run old-school Mage in, will be getting more Magey goodness from M20, and a plethora of my own ideas, I’ll be just fine in the minority if that’s the case. This is just a question of informational curiosity about Mage fans: What do you folks think, and is there any way to figure it out more-or-less for sure?
Inquiring minds and all that. Fans of the Technocracy will happily express their interests in the Union on an internet forum. This is what happens maage an Abyssal Exalted ends up in H.
Also known as “Derpwraith” and “PretentiousFontsGuy “. One thing is that we haven’t had any official maage arguing for the Traditions since the line was ended about 10 years ago, while the Technocracy has had 4 new great books out recently filled with arguments about their rightness.
The vocal support I’ve seen for the Technocracy used to bother me. I thought it was about mostly American people accepting, even embracing on some level, the authoritarianism and government overreach we’ve experienced over the last 13 years.
People loved the shit out of 24after all. Then I realized it’s probably mostly just that science became cool again in the last little while. I can get behind all that. I’ve always tended to see the Technocracy as primarily authoritarian and eliminationist, but I understand other interpretations better now.
Mage has fallen guilty of something a number of works do: I adore the black hats and mirrorshades. Female pronouns for me, please. That is, fans of the Technocracy tend to be louder than fans of the Traditions, not necessarily more numerous. This also holds true of the last Technocracy books published before Ascension came out: Iteration X make a point of painting the Technocracy in a very positive light, arguably overcompensating for the bad reputation the Union had previously had.
I for one like both, for different reasons. Conversely, I do think that people who like the Traditions but hate the Technocracy are a minority; but so are those who hate the Traditions and like the Technocracy. In my experience the Technocracy has a lot of fans online, but when it comes to sit down and play the game it always ends up being the Traditions.
Even when Technocrracy know I’ve run games for people that are more on the Technocrat fan side, they tend to just play a Technoxracy or VA in a Tradition game rather than technpcracy for a Technocrat game. The only Techie game I’ve every run was at a convention which was well attended and well liked, so clearly people do like playing them.
As someone who’s bumbling his way through more statistics and research design classes than he ever thought possible, necessary, or sanity-reinforcing, I’d say the answer you’re going to get depends a lot on how you ask the question. Considering the measurement issues here is a great way to procrastinate on considering the measurement issues in the paper I should be writing, so let’s look at a few versions. Mage Forum Debates This is the one you could get here, or at least a probably not random sample of it.
You could go back and count posts indicating preference for one faction or the other, but it’s possible that one faction is notably more vigorous in posting simply because they’re a vocal minority. You could also do a poll, but that again depends on who logs in-and the vocal minority may log in more frequently to defend itself.
Or it could just be that the more active users on this forum randomly happen to be skewed heavily towards one faction. Mage Plays Maybe you want to know which faction gets played more as PCs than the other-which is very different from the question of which faction gets supported. Actually playing RPGs, as we know, is a lot of work. You could try to get a sample of this by asking posters here what their play-groups favor getting the same issues about who will post hereor you could try to take a sample of players at a convention.
You may get disproportionately partisan players in that case though-it’s possible that you could get the 8 most die-hard Euthanatos players in the world, who drove out explicitly to play their annual Euthanatos adventure, while hundreds of people every year just play as Black Suits in the comfort of their own home. Honestly though, I’d suspect Traditionalists have a definite edge in this category: They also, as has been noted, have designated “I like science but I’m not sure I like telling people what’s good for them” factions.
Mage Purchases Maybe you want to know which faction sells more books than the other. You’d need access to sales data, needless to say-and I’m not sure how much of that is around from the old days of White Wolf, much less whether or not it’s publicly accessible. Given that Onyx Path has also switched to PoD and PDFs, you can’t necessarily even compare new books to old books- it’s possible one old book might have been way under-printed and would have sold more copies if there had been any, or it’s possible it was overstocked and those books lingered in the bottom shelves of FLGSs for years.
You’d have to compare similar books from similar areas, but I think you might run into a different problem: Both scenarios occur, surely, but we have no way of determining which is proportionally more frequent. To give you another data point, I’m pro-Traditionalist Celestial Chorus, everybody join hands!
Last edited by GhostTurtle ; I like both groups, but for different reasons. I love the Traditions for their wildly differing take on reality, and for their playability in both the standard Mage game and in the wider World of Darkness. I love the Technocracy for its arguably more sensible approach to fighting for consensus, and for their focus on safeguarding humanity.
If Mage was real, I would almost certainly be a Technocrat, simply because of my personal morality and ideology.
I can easily identify with both groups, tcehnocracy that’s what makes Mage such a great setting. I believe some of the issue here is that a lot of people have difficulty accepting that the “enemy” in a game is just another bunch of decent guys which is almost always the case in any conflict. They prefer a setting where the lines between the good guys and the bad guys are clearly drawn, and Mage is in no way such a setting. Of the different groups, only the Nephandi can be said to be singularly “evil”, and even that is not always a good fit.
I see Mage as a game where the hubris of any Awakened character is the greatest threat – even a well-meaning Traditionalist can very quickly turn into a monster if he or she loses perspective, and that can make for some very powerful stories.
All in all, I’m glad the Technocrats have moved firmly out of the “bad guy”-zone. They have a diffent and ascesnion solution for many of the same problems, and that makes them the enemy of the Traditionsbut not necessarily monsters. Actually, for me, it’s not a matter of liking the Traditions or the Technocracy, but liking some individual Traditions and some individual Conventions a lot more than the other splats.
Enh, I suppose that I am feeling cynical today, so this is going to be fairly negative. I think the Union has a techncracy fan base among people that do not, necessarily, play or enjoy Mage as a game – they are a vocal presence in online discussion of Mage because it gives them a platform to drop into threads and comment that they could not “get into” Mage or “take it seriously” because of a perceived anti-Science agenda.
Mage: The Ascension – 1d4chan
So you get tue certain number of voices in Mage threads that aren’t really in Mage’s “fandom” so much as within the sphere of people with opinions of Mage. While mmage early presentations of the Union were comically negative, I don’t think that’s actually a contributing factor – the people that latched onto the Union as the clear good guys of the setting aren’t interested in what the Union is in the game setting, or the role it plays in the themes of Mage – it’s just a stand-in, a cipher for their own science-positive, religiously-skeptical, often socially-progressive views.
Conversely, the Traditions are seen as a stand-in for anything that is loathed – pseudoscientific frauds, anti-vaxx bogeymen, religious fundamentalists, sexual predators.
When the text attempts to address these issues – by pointing out how the Traditions aren’t these things, or as in the case of Dissidents or Mad Scientists fear and struggle with these things – it is quickly dismissed – “that’s nonsense, we all know what people like that really act like.
Transitioning to the game-as-played, I think table games tend to trend Traditionalist by default. I go with the Traditions by default when I pitch ideas to my group, for instance. I don’t need or want the Union and the Council to be “equally corrupt” organizations – I don’t think that’s necessary for the Union to be playable, and I am beginning to feel as if the invocation of the great elements of modernity is to sooth the ire of people that took umbrage at an interpretation of the game that has little to do with the game itself and much to do with, frankly, years upon years of debate on message boards.
I don’t think Mage has to tell people that science isn’t getting treated negatively this time around – the Union is not the scientific faction. I think the chestnut that “the world has changed, and now science is seen as on the attack by unreason so the game should shift to seem less dated” is hollow – the forces of unchecked authority that the Union represents are not in any way “on the ropes”, and the current slap-fight over issues such as evolution and climate change is, at best, a thumb wrestling match between separate limbs of that octopus of authority.
If I am being extremely cynical, I suspect there is an urge to present the current era as “Reason under siege by the forces of ignorance” so that folks may present themselves as a valiant minority struggling against the legions of darkness.
Techoncracy attack people with giant insects both on and off the court. Back when I was ascensionn enough to engage in Ascension vs.
Awakening edition wars, I certainly got the impression that a lot of the people who disliked Awakening were mainly frustrated that it was ths longer a WoD game for playing mad engineers who wield gonzo-tech. I’ve also seen forums put a lot more effort into justifying the Technocracy’s views than the Traditions’–probably because they are the most recently-developed faction. I definitely agree with the point above that the idea of Science being ‘The Man Trying to Keep Us Down’ has died a horribly, grizzly death in the zeitgeist tge Internet nerds.
Neither of those two seem particularly ripe for villainhood. I feel like the Traditions could stand to be made a bit deeper, though it’s possible that they were in setting material that I just don’t see discussed as much. On a fairly basic level, I just don’t really get who lives in the modern day and has technoxracy hyper-strong-willed beliefs turn away from any idea of science as a whole. Even the most devout of esoteric mystics and magicians don’t have a beef with the idea of how a match works, y’know?
Of all the things to explore in M20, who joins the Traditions is at the top of my list. Technocrscy anti-science and technology reading of Ascension has always been based on distortions of fact in the setting and a strong misreading of other elements. Examples include the notion that the Traditions were “in charge” of the Mythic Age they weren’t–most Traditions are groups of heretics and weirdos and the idea that the Traditions are anti-technology they aren’t–two are science-oriented, and one is essentially post-Technocratic or are actively competing for domination of the Consensus they mostly aren’t–the Hermetics might try it but it isn’t even on the agenda, for the most part.
Mage is however definitely about reason as a rationale for oppressive, hegemonic agendas. It’s just that after a decade of war and 25 years of post-Cold Ascensioh triumphalism ascribed to rational economic victory, the culture has swung to the right. Writer, Game Designer, Pro since Originally posted by Five Eyes View Post. Originally posted by Deflare View Post. Last edited by Dataweaver ; Previous 1 2 3 4 7 Next.
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